Not sure what to say about this game.
Some guys back.
List of injured players grows.
No Troock or Myles.
And possibly the future goalie called up.
Hockey Challenge 2014
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26 comments :
Sooo, that happened.
^^^Hahahahaahhahaha...best comment ever.
Quick question. Portland does not have a first round pick for 2014 because of their sanctions right? But they are allowed to trade into a first round pick? Seems odd to me.
Apparently they can, kind of seems to mitigate the punishment to let them trade back into the first round. Seems like a good return for a 19 yr old that never played for you. Do the T-birds have some 19yr old listed players they can get a 1st or 2nd for? :)
Remember how it was worded:
"WHL Commissioner Ron Robison has suspended the Portland Winterhawks from participating in the first five rounds of the 2013 WHL Bantam Draft and the forfeiture of their first round selections in the 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 WHL Bantam Drafts."
Only last year they couldn't participate the rest of the years was just about losing picks.
All of that being said why can't the Thunderbirds
A. Spot these players and list them.
B. Get them to want to come play for us (PDX always seem to get a bunch of listed talent)
C. Have a prospect section on the Seattle Thunderbirds site that show all of the listed players like PDX, SPO, and TRI have (most annoying thing EVER)
The fans want to know what's in the pipeline, it helps build excitement not only for the current year but for what the future has to offer.
stbird - Which portland trade are you referring to? They had traded the rights to a pick that was removed prior to the punishment being meted by the league.
Kodi - The Birds rarely release their protected list. Alan Caldwell's blog Small At Large does a good job calling out the 40 man roster but those obviously update quick and get out of date quicker.
Jon - Alan does do a good job and I refer to the list all the time.
I just feel the Thunderbirds organization is out of touch with things. Kids playing hockey at this caliber want there ego stroked. What better way to show interest then to have a section devoted to the prospects. Get fans talking about the future and make the kids feel wanted.
I kind of look at it the same way people look at the whole college football uniform thing in terms of how things change over time. Yes I am a tradionalist and want to see the Huskies in purple and gold every week none of this black uniform crap. That being said if having a 3rd/4th/5th uniform gets a player to want to commit to the Huskies then go ahead and do it because I'd rather have the best players in ugly uniforms winning then average players in traditional uniforms losing.
It is all about the scouting!! Remember when the Winterhawks were horrible for those 3 years. They were horrible because they could not scout!! and they drafted poorly. When the new ownership arrived they put $$$ in the scouting system. They drafted better and then added selected players like Carruth and Wrenn from the college ranks. The Hawks drafted Ross, Rattie, Their captain last year, Leier, Lipstick, Bertschi, and Ryan Johansen. PLayers get drafted and sign NHL deals then it snowballs and other talented players want to player for a winning organization!
If ya'll haven't seen it yet, go check out the highlights from the first Prince George game. The second goal by Gropp was very pretty.
kodi:
The tbirds do list players and do draft risky guys, some come some don't.
Listed players off the top of my head (anyone can correct me if I am wrong):
-Honey
-Calvin Spencer
-Jason Zucker (he was listed and Ambroz was drafted...right?)
-Jerret Smith
-Easnor?
So can you say that it does not have the "caliber" of Portland? maybe, but then you can say that Portland is not the holly land it used to be (with Tambellini seemingly happy to be tradedc to Cal)
Now for the getting them to play here, sometimes it is though when the team is not winning a lot. But that is a bit on the players too. I don't think that Honey regretted to forfeit his NCAA elligibility to come here, or Wolf of Gropp. Now if you compare with Portland, let me ask you this, to what length should the tbirds go to to land theses players?
For the prospect section, I think its a token thing that is cute but doesn't mean anything. If you look at Portland's page, its not even updated that often. (as of last night Tambellini was still on there) and do you REALLY need to know what Rocco Grimaldi is up to? is there a real chance to see him land in Port? For the kids in midget level leagues, I think it would be usefull if I knew more about the leagues caliber (wich I don't) the difference between a kid scorring 5 goals in BCHL or another scoring 15 in BCDERDSEWEDFHL? I don't know...
Maybe the fans should be excited about what is on the ice right now instead of down the pipe. just saying.
Anon 10:28
you know, its funny. People keep comparing to Portland and it drive me nuts. Not because it is not a relevant comparison. But I try to see it in a different perspective.
Portland drafting sucked but not when people think it did. It sucked BEFORE they missed the playoffs. Johnston is on the record saying that Ken Hodge left him with a lot of talent to work with. The draft was very bad for Portland like 2-3 year before they had their playoff drought. (sound familiar?)
Seattle was the same way (without the drastic turnaround)
Drafts did not produce a lot of everyday players between 2005-2008 (apart from Lochart and Pickard)
And you saw it waterfall in the playoffs presence from 2009.
As far as Portland goes the season the new owner took over, they seemed to have solved most of their drafting angst...(now they might have improved on it since then...but that is another story)
I'm not saying we don't list players what I'm saying is we haven't been successful getting them to come here. I'm also not saying we break rules to get these players to come here either like you implied I was. The last real impact player that we pulled from a college was Jim O'Brien.
Zucker and Ambroz did not come to the Thunderbirds which really proves my point.
It's WAY too early to claim that Spencer, Smith, and Eansor are elite talent though they all have good games and not trying to sell them short.
Honey unfortunately unless he comes back and plays at the level he can is a bust.
As for Tambellini he may not have wanted to play for Portland but they did get a 1st round pick for him so it's not like he was worthless.
kodi:
Don't get me wrong, I am not implying, I am honestly asking. Do you really think that Portland get the players on record alone? I don't. I have heard WAY to many case of players getting money (or refusing a money offer)
Calling Honey a bust is a bit much when the kid was a career .8pts per game with the tbirds and on a pace of 1 pts /game this year.(btw his first full season with the tbirds he scored 55pts in less games than Obrien )
also, if you are calling Smith a "too early to call" while he is a mainstay top 4 d-man on this lineup for 2 season?? Maybe we have to reset the expectations?
I can agree on Easnor and Spencer BUT you have to start somewhere. And I think that Easnor is lining up to be one of the best defensive center in the conference by year end. Not too bad in my book.
The Ambroz and Zucker thing, did you realize that the tbirds had a summer camp just to show one of them around, to lure thim in? He did not even show up. At one point its in the players hands too. As much as it was pleasant to see Gropp commit and decommit to sign here. It goes both ways, But i don't think you can blame the organisation for the guys who are not showing up than just applaud the players who are signing on to the team.
jon,
HITMEN ACQUIRE RIGHTS TO TAMBELLINI FROM WINTERHAWKS – The Calgary Hitmen acquired the rights to 19-year-old forward Adam Tambellini from the Portland Winterhawks in exchange for a first-round pick in the 2014 WHL Bantam Draft.
I'm sure there will be a trade thread just wanted to repeat what I wrote on the white board
I think Seattle overpaid for both of the trades and neither appear to help the team.
Yesterday we trade
Swenson 8G 12A
Holub 1G 2A
4th Rounder
for
Maxwell 10G 17A
So for an increase of 1G and 3A we give up a younger player and an additional draft pick and if the reports are right we can't even get and value for him as a 20because he's going on a mission
Then comes today's trade
Myles 3.66 GAA and a .889 SAV%
Douglas a young defender
4th rounder
for
Kozun 3.95 GAA and a .897 SAV%
See my biggest problem is if you want to make a run at the playoffs you need to overpay for much better talent. If you don't think you have the team though to make the run then you sell some of your top 19's for younger players/picks to help build around the young core you already have in place. If both players end up being lights out though I'm more then happy to eat crow I just don't see this doing anything for the team.
Farwell reminds me of a hockey parent who thinks his kids are better then they actually are
Austin Douglas was a high 2nd round pick and is not valued enough that we can't get another 19 year old (on a team full of 19 year old's) without throwing in a future 4th rounder and a younger goalie. How's drafting those big fellas working out Russ? Keep it up buddy.
Individually, I actually like both deals. Nobody we traded was playing a vital role with the team (even Swenson). Swenson was by all accounts a good leader but had been pushed out for ice time by other players.
We'll have to wait and see how both Maxwell and Kozun work out... but I think both of these moves were pretty low risk moves to take a shot at improving your team for a bit of a run this year.
Agree with Tyler here. Holub wasn't even with the team so no big deal and Swenson was mostly valuable on the PK, somebody else will fill that void.
As for Myles, talk about numbers all you want but goalies numbers have a lot to do with the team as a whole, Kozun was playing on a terrible team this season. Look at his numbers from last years team. Very solid.
Douglas was going to be fighting for ice time the rest of this season and unless he makes dramatic improvements I don't see him getting a ton of ice time next season, especially if Fabbro signs.
I don't mind the trades as much as giving up draft picks.
Portland looks like they are making a run for the playoffs. I like their trades, they realized they needed a goalie.
Their GM seems to make smart moves. I will leave it that!
I get what both of you are saying. I think my real problem was the trading of 2 4th round picks.
I think for the Maxwell trade you could have made that one a conditional pick if he stays for a 20 year old season (if we choose to keep him or not)and I don't think I would have offered a pick for kozun but if I had to throw one in it might have been a 5th or 6th.
I think these picks are going to be valuable over the next couple of years as we continue to build around Barzal, Gropp and the rest of our young core and I'd rather use them as trade bait for younger talent.
To me... 4th rounders have more value in trades (like this) than they do in drafts.
That's not to say that you can't find guys in the 4th round but the list of guys we've drafted in the 4th and beyond that panned out is fairly short. (ignoring our drafting prowess for a minute for the sake of argument).
Lane Pederson - (5th) that looks promising.
Kevin Wolf - (10th) jury out still.
Justin Myles - (5th) meh.
Evan Wardley - (6th) that one has worked out decently.
Colin Jacobs - (4th) kinda worked out.
Mitch Elliot - (5th) also kinda worked out.
Tyler Alos - (6th) worked out pretty well until injury.
Chance Lund - (4th) meh
Charles Wells - (5th) a few good years.
Sena Acolatse - (4th) pretty solid there.
4th's certainly aren't worthless but they aren't franchise killers either.
I wasn't talking about using them in drafts but more for trades that help the young core of this team not for players that are one and done.
You build winning teams with smart 4th round picks. Anybody can hit a homerun with Top Picks Barzal, but good organizations win by selecting good players in the 4 th round and later.
Brian
While that is absolutely true... my point is that they are far from a sure bet to pan out and if you have the chance to improve yourself and try to win games I think you do it because that is also what winning teams do.
Especially... when you didn't sacrifice a ton of your future to do so.
On the bright side Kozun should help the offense, he has three assists so far this season! On the value of 4th rounders, you could also list out all the second rounders that don't work out beyond Douglas, such as Green, Muth, Ashdown, Dion, Pinder, Bishop, and Cyr. On the other hand Theodore was a late 3rd rounder so gold is there in that range if you make the right call.
With all the 19's we have, Russ will be weeling and dealing this coming summer. He will probably get those 4th rounders back in trades.
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