Mathew Barzal a healthy scratch tonight.
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Tyler Hunnex - I started/founded/began Let's Go Birds in September of 2007 after feeling like my favorite Junior Hockey team needed more discussion and analysis. I'm statistically minded, forever frustrated by the Tbirds and my all-time favorite player was #10. I think I'm funny and my writing would probably disagree. Follow me on Twitter @TylerHunnex.
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Mathew Barzal will have how many points in the 2013-14 season?
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29 comments :
Danny Mumaugh with the second start in a row. Does this mean the alternating experiment is over for good?
I guess Ronny knows everything. LOL
I'd be more keen to bench Gropp than Barzal myself. Interesting though, never the less.
That's a good move. The kid was -10 with just 3 assists (I think only 2 were legit) in his last 9 games.
Anyone else puts up those numbers and they are scratched - probably 3 games ago. Good move by the T-Birds.
I wouldn't be suprised to see a positive reaction from the team and go out and win tonight.
The puzzle pieces are starting to come together on the 'Ronny' situation. I'm not going to name names, but keep this in mind: while the Thunderbirds have thousands of Facebook friends, there are only a select few that regularly post in the comments and on the fanpage. Same goes on this page. Now find the one that won't shut his mouth, the one that everyone cracks jokes on at his expense because he is so universally disliked. Now go through the comments and read his thoughts on Barzal. Next, Google his name with the word 'hockey' included and find a major junior hockey record. If you didn't feel like you've already wasted your time on a complete tool, you do now.
I have always been very impressed with Barzal. I think he is the most talented player this team has seen since... I don't know when. Coach K is not afraid to bench anyone, and one thing I notice about him is that he likes to bench his stars when they are underperforming because he sees it as a way to get more out of them. Not every coach does this as consistently as Kono. As far as my comments on Barzal go, I will not pretend I have a lot of experience at this level, but I have been watching and playing hockey my whole life so I like to think I know a little. All of this Barzal bashing makes no sense to me. He has allowed guys like Lipsbergs, Troock and Hickman to score so many more goals this year than they would have otherwise. As far as those secondary assists go, we keep those stats for a reason! Barzal might have a lot of them but he is getting them by making smart passes consistently. Definitely the best 16 year old I have seen in a t-bird uniform (btw in order to be completely honest here, let me say that I never saw Marleau).
I will respectfully disagree with 10:47 and 8:35
Ronny isn't bashing Barzal at all. He has repeatedly said Barzal is a great player and not at fault.
What Ronny is commenting on is the team culture and the improper utilization of players. That has been a problem in Seattle for many years. It's only magnified this year due to the media storm surrounding Barzal.
Also, it seems the board it split on Ronny. He definitely has some detractors here, but I also note a fair amount of apparently informed posters agree with him, as do I.
Apparently Kono did as well.
Barzal is -10 in Seattle's last 10 games with 3 assists to show for it (thats being generous).
That hardly screams elite
Good scratch last night. Remove the cancer and the patient got healthy with a nice win.
Lipsbergs, Troock and Hickman are going to score tons of goals this year regardless of who the center is.
You want to show everyone how good Barzal is? Put him on the 4th line with Kolesar and Holub. If he can those guys scoring - well now he's done something!
Anonymous at 8:43 and GW
There is no doubt Barzal recently has not been good. Kono did the right thing scratching him and he probably should sit again Tuesday night against Kelowna.
That said, quit talking out of both sides of your mouths. You can't keep telling us that both yourselves and "Ronny" say he's a great player and at the same time call him a cancer. You know what the cancer is on the T-Birds? A total lack of commitment by the entire team to play good defense. The total lack of commitment to man up in the face of a challenge. That has everything to do with the character of the very players you guys want to see get the lions share of the ice time. Its about personal responsibility and buying in to the team concept. It sounds like the coach is consistently preaching these things and getting no or very little response. If the "jealousy" over the "special treatment" you guys percieve Barzal to be getting is real and that is causing the rest of the team to give less than their best effort then we have much larger problems than Barzal. You guys are basically saying that the mere presence of Barzal anywhere other than the 4th line or the stands is the cause of 20 other guys going in he tank.
This team is either going to learn that they have to generate a strong forecheck every night and make the commitment to playing tough team defense every night or they are going to keep losing. They have to outwork their opponents every night regardless of who the opponent is or how much ice time they are getting individually.
Barzal is one of the few playmakers the team has, along with Honey and Theodore. As much as players like Troock, Lipsbergs, Hickman, Delnov and Swenson can score none of them are great at setting up their teammates. The lack of goal scoring recently is because removing Honey and Sheen from the equation causes too much reliance on Barzal to make plays. Combine that with the lack of forecheck recently and lack of defensive commitment all season and you get a 6 game losing streak. None of that makes Barzal a cancer. What it makes him is a 16 yr old player 1/3 of the way through his rookie season having some ups and downs while his older teammates fail to lead by example and get themselves back on track. If there are cancers on the T-Birds they are older players who won't make the commitment to doing what it takes to win, not the new kid who is supposed to be learning from them, regardless of how much hype he has received.
"If the "jealousy" over the "special treatment" you guys percieve Barzal to be getting is real and that is causing the rest of the team to give less than their best effort then we have much larger problems than Barzal. "
FINALLY you are starting to understand. Barzal is not a cancer. This is not Barzals fault. As you finally are starting to grasp "we have much larger problems".
The way we are using Barzal is a mere symptom of the much larger problem, being that we lack the proper culture.
When we install the right culture - one of ACCOUNTABILITY then - and only then - can we move to the next steps of creating both a TEAM IDENTITY and a TEAM STRATEGY . The 3rd step is to PREPARE to execute that identity and that strategy. The next step is to EXECUTE and finally the last step is to execute CONSISTANTLY.
1.) CULTURE
2.) IDENTITY & STRATEGY
3.) PREPARATION
4.) EXECUTION
5.) CONSISTANCY
We are still spinning our wheels on step one, and until we install the right culture the rest will not happen with any consistancy.
Barzal, the player, is not a problem.
The way we are handling Barzal is a SYMPTOM of a much larger problem.
Install the right CULTURE and we can move on to the next steps.
Building a winning franchise is a PROCESS. Don't believe me? Ask ANY respectable coach and see what he says.
It looks like Kono is trying to right the ship. Let's hope Farwell stays out of his way.
WB Said ... "quit talking out of both sides of your mouths"
LOL. If anyone is talking out both sides of their mouths it's Tyler.
First he tweet
@TylerHunnex
This is a failure on all levels and yet I'm not the least bit surprised. That should say a lot.
Then, when someone tries offering suggestions he chiprs
Thunnex said...
To complain about Barzal is completely asinine.
LOL. So which is it, a massive failure on ALL levels? Or a massive failuer on all levels EXCEPT BARZAL?
Boy, doesn't the latter fit right into Ronny's narrative about special treatment. And Tyler say's he's not part of the problem. Sheeeesh! Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Mathew Barzel has more points then any other 16 year old in the WHL. He's a 16 year old playing in a league full of great hockey players and until the last few games he has been producing. This is beyond ridiculous to blame him in any way shape or form for the results of this team...It is ridiculous to healthy scratch him. Develop him and keep giving him opportunities. It would be an absolute waste of time to play him on the 4th line. The last thing you want to do is destroy his confidence. He has proven himself at every level and he will in Seattle. Seattle has a realistic chance in a couple of years to be Memorial cup champions but it will come from the younger players...the future. Barzel, Gropp, kolasar and the their 98 group coming. Be patient and support the team. You should be ashamed of yourself to call a 16 year old a cancer....feel lucky that you have him...he will no doubt make mistakes as all young players do but his skill is unquestionable. These are kids and as adults we need to show some respect!
WB was pretty much right on there. Not having a real playmaker outside of Barzal (while Honey has been out) has been a real issue. As far as the healthy scratch goes, everyone has been there and Matthew will be no different.
I would like to take a moment here though and remind everyone that we don't have to turn into selfish little children every time the team starts to fail. The pitch of our bickering this last week has really peaked and I'm not always real comfortable with it (not that that is anyone else's problem).
So please Ronny, Ronny's followers, and everyone else let's just keep calm and enjoy the game!
Mathew Barzel has more points then any other 16 year old in the WHL.
He *SHOULD* have more points than any other 16 year old. He's had up to 10 times the ice the other 16 year olds have had, has played with top veteran goal scorers game in and game out and has played in all situations. If he didn't have more points there would be something seriously wrong. Most 16 year olds, coming through the proper development path, to this point in the season have had have been limited to a handful of 4th line shifts per game with other developing rookies.
He's a 16 year old playing in a league full of great hockey players
Yes, exactly why he should be brought along slowly and brought up to speed.
until the last few games he has been producing.
Until now? In the last 10 games he is -10 and has exactly 3 assists. 10 games is almost half our season to date. How is that "producing". He "produced" in the early part of the season while many teams top players were off at NHL camps. The became "full strength" approximately 10 games ago. He is not producing as a top 6 forward in our league.
This is beyond ridiculous to blame him in any way shape or form for the results of this team
Why is it beyond ridiculous? What's ridiculous is installing a 16 year old in a leadership position and then when things aren't going well we wonder why. If he is in a top 6 leadership position, why shouldn't he be held accountable? That's exactly the problem with this team. NO ONE has been held accountable.
It is ridiculous to healthy scratch him.
Why is it ridiculous to healthy scratch him. We have to healthy scratch 5 guys a game. Why would the youngest player on the team be off limits. He should be scratched approximately 12 games this season. Good for his development to watch the veterans run our systems from the stands and to watch some of the better teams run their systems from the stands.
Develop him and keep giving him opportunities.
The WHL is a development league. The starting point for developing rookies is a combination of the stands where they can watch the vets implement the systems, and the 4th line, where they can play with other team rookies against other teams 4th lines and implement the systems themselves while acclamating to game speed.
It would be an absolute waste of time to play him on the 4th line. The last thing you want to do is destroy his confidence.
What an assanine thing to say. Every team in the league has a 4th line. These are the development lines where rookies cut their teeth. Players on these lines aren't having their "confidence destroyed", they are learning our game, acclamating to the speed and cutting their teeth against other league rookies. It's a tried and true method that has worked for 50 years. But I am curious, which players should be "destroying the confidence of"? Are you saying it's fine to destroy the confidence of Kolesar, Holub, Eliott or Easnor but the teams most confident player would implode if had to play on that line? This is exactly the type of "he's special" treatment that corrodes our TEAM and underscores the CULTURE OF ENTITLEMENT that persists here.
He has proven himself at every level and he will in Seattle.
Hey, this is the WHL. EVERY SINGLE PLAYER who is here has PROVEN themselves at the lower levels or they wouldn't be here. Matthew is not "special" in that regard, but again, our special treatment of him sends the wrong message. I agree with you that Matthew will prove himself at this level, so let's let him do that. Let him develop the same as our other rookies and leave no doubt. Why are we so afraid to see what he can do with the 4th line. Will he put up average points for a 16 year old? Is that what we are afraid of? That he won't stand out amongst his peers if he is held to the same limited opportiunities that they get. Only then can he PROVE himself. Doing more with more doesn't prove anything. Doing more with the same is how you prove yourself. It's like giving Matthew a Ferrari and Keegan Kolesar a golf cart and saying - ok race - the first one to the finish line is the best. That doesn't prove anything. It only proves that Matthew had an advantage from the start, which he does here, logging almost 20 minutes a game with veteran goal scorers and PP1 etc.
Seattle has a realistic chance in a couple of years to be Memorial cup champions but it will come from the younger players...the future. Barzel, Gropp, kolasar and the their 98 group coming.
Yes, which is EXACTLY why we need to develop the players properly by bringing them along the proven development path and also develop the team properly that everyone is accountable and no individual is bigger than the team. Only then will ever have a chance at winning anything.
Be patient and support the team.
I do support the TEAM. You are the one putting an individual ahead of the team. Patience is my middle name. I am esposing a slow and purpsoseful developmental path. You are the one saying now-now-now give him everything. Play him lots on top 6 and don't make him learn or earn anything. Who is the one being impatient?
You should be ashamed of yourself to call a 16 year old a cancer
I cannot speak for others, but I have never called the man a cancer. I have repeatedly said and I will say again, he is a great 16 year old hockey player. You have to be a great 16 year old hockey player to play in this league. I have said on many occasion I do not blame Matthew for anything. What I have said is the manner in which we are using him, putting him ahead of his team mates, ushering him to the front of the line, not holding accountable to pay the same price as his team mates - this is a cancer on a team and it will eat away at them. It is a big problem.
feel lucky that you have him
I do feel lucky that we have him. As I have said repeatedly, he is a great player. I feel bad for him that we are mismanaging him in the way we are. We are only building resentment towards him from his team mates and we are not doing him any favors in his development. We are cdreating a bad situation for Matthew and for the Seatthe Thunderbirds. Very much the same mistakes that Prince George made with Forsberg and are also making now with Harkens - a problem compounded by bring his daddy on the bench to influence his ice time. These situations do not fly in the Western Hockey League. We are seeing that now, as Matthew is -10 in Seattle's last 10 games and has only 3 assists despite playing top minutes and PP1
he will no doubt make mistakes as all young players do but his skill is unquestionable.
The skill is unquestionable of most 16 year old hockey players in this league or they wouldnt be in this league. And he should make mistakes. That is part of the learning process. It's also a big reason that most teams 4th lines are filled with rookies and used sparingly, most often against other teams 4th lines. They are expected to make mistakes, but limited so those mistakes have limited effect on the team.
These are kids and as adults we need to show some respect!
I agree with you. I cannot speak for others, but we should always be respectful when talking about kids. This entire league is full of kids. I believe Tyler does a good job of walking the line with his blog, being critical of the team without being disrespectful with the kids who play on it. Again, and I cannot restate this enough, this is not a problem with Matthew Barzal the player, this is a problem with Russ Farwell, who has not installed the proper CULTURE OF ACCOUNTABILITY in Seattle. Kids will do what kids will do. If you give Matthew the starting center job and never bring him off the ice, he will take it gladly. Who wouldn't? If I give my 4 year old candy all day every day he will take it happily every time. He will grow fat and prone to illness, and it would not be his fault. It would be MY FAULT for giving him what he enjoyed but was not neccesarily good for him. I should know better. Not him. This is the same thing. Farwell and Kono should know better. Matthew will happily take whatever ice they give him and why wouldn't he? That doesn't mean it's in the best interest of Matthew or the team.
Not having a real playmaker outside of Barzal (while Honey has been out) has been a real issue.
There are plenty of playmakers on this team. These players are much more versatile than you give them credit for. Install the right systems and create the right identity and they will be fine.
As far as the healthy scratch goes, everyone has been there and Matthew will be no different.
I hope you are right. This sends the right message. A good move by Kono, but again, the Matthew situation is only a SYMPTON of a much larger problem, which is the wrong culture. There is much work to do. 1.) Culture, 2.) Identity & Strategy, 3.) Preparation, 4.) Execution, 5.) consistancy
So please Ronny, Ronny's followers, and everyone else let's just keep calm and enjoy the game!
Well I cannot speak for anyone else, but I can speak for myself. I do enjoy the games. Immensely. I go as often as I can to watch both the Thunderbirds and the Silvertips and make many drives in our Division and up to Vancouver. In between the coaching I do locally now and am in constant contact with many friends who are still involved in the WHl, even players. I don't think I've been anything but calm and respectful in my comments on this blog. It should be noted, the comments I offer are in response to blog entries entitled "Let's all freak out", a twitter message by the blog author which reads "This is a failure on all levels and yet I'm not the least bit surprised" and then a follow up blog post created solely to attack my character, which has been repeated several times in these comment sections by anonymous and google-annonymous posters. If you are espousing some group to "keep calm", I believe you should be addressing "Thunnex and Thunnex followers"
Cheers!
I suppose "comment moderation" is one way to supress conflicting opinions.
Alright then, unfortunate, but it's your blog. See ya in another life brother!
Go T-Birds!
Ronny, I've published all of your comments. As I have said before, I agree wholeheartedly with SOME of the ideas you are putting forth.
It's time to give it a rest.
We get it.
We get you think you're smarter than all of us and we get the agenda you are putting forth.
I haven't stopped you in any form and I'm now just asking you nicely to change the subject.
I don't like your delivery but you've been civil so I have no problem with you. We've heard you out. We get it.
Thanks.
To WB at 12:33
Before you put Troock in the group of players who are not great at setting up their teammates or being good playmakers maybe check the stats...Troock is tied with Theo for second in assists on the team
One more comment because I think this is important. (Help, I'm trapped in a Ronny vortex)
Ronny, I never attacked your character in my post. I questioned your motives and the validity of your claims based on the qualifications you claimed. There is a huge difference.
I even specifically said "This isn't meant as an attack on the guy". I simply said that if you are who you say you are you should identify yourself. You have chosen not to and you have every right to do that... so be it. I just don't have to take you seriously.
Also... the post I wrote entitled "Let's all freak out" had a heavy dose of sarcasm attached to it. I thought that was obvious and I apologize for the confusion.
I even specifically said "This isn't meant as an attack on the guy".
Yeah, that's like prefacing a dig at someone with, "with all due respect",
Feel free to walk it back, but even in the article you are referencing, before you get to the "not meant as an attack part" you question my intestinal fortitude with this statement ...
I turned comment registration on because I wanted to see if "Ronny" had enough guts to register himself before making a comment. Clearly he didn't.
It's not a big deal to me. There have been harsher attacks for sure from anonymous commenters. I am ok with that. I don't have a problem there. I also did see and appreciate the sarcasm in your post title. I was actually addressing the guy who suggested that I somehow need to "calm down". I don't think I've been excited or erratic. I simply see a culture which has been badly in need of fixing for years. Really has not much to do with the current slide. That was inevitable.
It's all good with me. Again, I don't have a big problem with you or your commentaters. I am just "calmly" addressing something that was erroneously hurled in my direction.
I believe I stated, and I do believe , that you do a very good job walking a fine line between critique and respect. I don't agree with everything you write, but I do enjoy reading it.
Keep up the good work!
Next game is Kelowna, I can't wait to see their 4th line of Goulbourne, Bailie and Merckley
Sorry, I'm not posting that "Ronny". Any comment that contains a personal attack from this point forward isn't going to get posted.
I should have adhered to this earlier but better late than never.
Disagree if you must but if you make things personal... go somewhere else.
What portion do you consider a personal attack?
That Mr. Tell's comparison isn't relevant to the discussion?
That Goulbourne is in his 5th year?
That Baillie is in his 3rd year?
That merkely has been in the league twice as long as Barzal?
That Merckely spent his first two months in the league seeinga fair amount of healthy scratches and paying dues on the 4th line?
That Merkely has scored more than twice what Barzal has with the same amount of ice?
Which portion is a personal attack?
Might have been the first sentence. You should probably go back and re-read it.
That Mr. Tell's comparison isn't relevant to the discussion .. got it
Nope... it was before that. If you want to email me privately I can show you what you wrote. :)
Interesting side discussion here. What do we consider to be a playmaker? While Troock is definitely my favorite player on the team right now because of all the raw effort he puts in every night, I certainly wouldn't call him a playmaker. He is more of a power forward in my book.
I guess to me a playmaker is a guy who makes those passes that nobody else can see and makes them tape to tape every time. While Troock can do this well sometimes (like when he fed Yak for the GWG on Saturday)I wouldn't exactly say that his execution of these passes is at the level of playmaker because most of the assists I see him picking up are when he uses his size to take the puck off someone closer to the net. He is pretty good at pushing his way to the net and making those in-tight type passes but to me those count in a category other than playmaker. Actually a good power forward is often more valuable than a good playmaker. At least that is how I see it.
Thoughts? I could be persuaded otherwise if given a reasonable argument.
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